Gary Chapman (Amy Grant's ex-husband) has seperated from his 2nd wife Jen

[mike]

apparently it was mentioned on Amygrant.com but I can't find it
there.

this is where I read the news http://tinyurl.com/yn4lcj I assume
it's true. no reason not to believe it.



Amy Grant had an affair with country singer Vince Gill in the early to
mid 1990s, and she divorced her husband, Gary Chapman, around 1997, and
married her lover Vince Gill around 1999.

Gary has been in a downward spiral, recently getting arrested for drunk
driving IIRC. and now he and his second wife, Jen, have apparently
legally seperated..


gotta feel bad for their kids when both parents (Amy and Gary) mess up
so incredibly badly.

[Socks]

Post by mike
apparently it was mentioned on Amygrant.com but I can't find it
there.
this is where I read the news http://tinyurl.com/yn4lcj I assume
it's true. no reason not to believe it.
Amy Grant had an affair with country singer Vince Gill in the early to
mid 1990s, and she divorced her husband, Gary Chapman, around 1997, and
married her lover Vince Gill around 1999.
Gary has been in a downward spiral, recently getting arrested for drunk
driving IIRC. and now he and his second wife, Jen, have apparently
legally seperated..
gotta feel bad for their kids when both parents (Amy and Gary) mess up
so incredibly badly.

Aren't Amy Grant and Chapman devout Christians living in the heart of
redneck country? Isn't she some Christian singer? I love how these
Christian freaks shove family values down everyone else's throat but
have no idea what it means. They're so concerned about gays having
kids with 2 daddies yet have no problems shuttling their bastard
children back and forth between their real dads and stepdads. Amy
Grant needs to keep her legs closed. She ruined this guy's life. It's
very hard to live it down having your wife cheating with another man.

[Nancy Young]

Post by Socks
Aren't Amy Grant and Chapman devout Christians living in the heart of
redneck country? Isn't she some Christian singer? I love how these
Christian freaks shove family values down everyone else's throat but
have no idea what it means. They're so concerned about gays having
kids with 2 daddies yet have no problems shuttling their bastard
children back and forth between their real dads and stepdads. Amy
Grant needs to keep her legs closed. She ruined this guy's life. It's
very hard to live it down having your wife cheating with another man.

Without getting into what's right, what's wrong, Gary Chapman has
had major drinking issues long before Vince Gill showed up. There
were big problems in the marriage that have nothing to do with
another man coming along. It's the first (and really, just about only)
thing I learned about Amy Grant, was how troubled her marriage was.

nancy

[Calla]

Post by Nancy Young

Post by Socks
Aren't Amy Grant and Chapman devout Christians living in the heart of
redneck country? Isn't she some Christian singer? I love how these
Christian freaks shove family values down everyone else's throat but
have no idea what it means. They're so concerned about gays having
kids with 2 daddies yet have no problems shuttling their bastard
children back and forth between their real dads and stepdads. Amy
Grant needs to keep her legs closed. She ruined this guy's life. It's
very hard to live it down having your wife cheating with another man.

Without getting into what's right, what's wrong, Gary Chapman has
had major drinking issues long before Vince Gill showed up. There
were big problems in the marriage that have nothing to do with
another man coming along. It's the first (and really, just about only)
thing I learned about Amy Grant, was how troubled her marriage was.

Not only drinking issues, but drug issues as well. He's always been a
punk .... think of him as Amy Grant's Kevin Federline or Bobby Brown,
if you will. The sad thing is that she felt obligated to stay with him
for so long (and kept popping out babies with him). She regretted
marrying him almost as soon as the vows were said. Every interview
with her through the years had an underlying theme about the
difficulties in her marriage ... I could probably gather at least one
telling quote from every interview.

[Rodney M.]

Post by Calla

Post by Nancy Young

Post by Socks
Aren't Amy Grant and Chapman devout Christians living in the heart of
redneck country? Isn't she some Christian singer? I love how these
Christian freaks shove family values down everyone else's throat but
have no idea what it means. They're so concerned about gays having
kids with 2 daddies yet have no problems shuttling their bastard
children back and forth between their real dads and stepdads. Amy
Grant needs to keep her legs closed. She ruined this guy's life. It's
very hard to live it down having your wife cheating with another man.

Without getting into what's right, what's wrong, Gary Chapman has
had major drinking issues long before Vince Gill showed up. There
were big problems in the marriage that have nothing to do with
another man coming along. It's the first (and really, just about only)
thing I learned about Amy Grant, was how troubled her marriage was.

Not only drinking issues, but drug issues as well. He's always been a
punk .... think of him as Amy Grant's Kevin Federline or Bobby Brown,
if you will. The sad thing is that she felt obligated to stay with him
for so long (and kept popping out babies with him). She regretted
marrying him almost as soon as the vows were said. Every interview
with her through the years had an underlying theme about the
difficulties in her marriage ... I could probably gather at least one
telling quote from every interview.

Still, when she founded her entire career on her Christian message,
it's awfully hard to ignore the fact that she still had an affair. Lots
of people live in very difficult marriages and regret their choice for
marriage, but that doesn't excuse an affair.

As far as Amy Grant goes, I heard about her when she was 19, and was
playing a small venue. She's pretty attractive, and at one point in the
concert she put down her guitar and talked honestly about how lonely
her life was and how she'd love to have a significant friend. I wasn't
there but a friend who was recounted that after the concert it was
'standing room only' backstage as just about every single guy in the
house wanted to help 'take away her pain.' lol.

[JFlexer]

Post by Rodney M.

Post by Calla

Post by Nancy Young

Post by Socks
Aren't Amy Grant and Chapman devout Christians living in the heart of
redneck country? Isn't she some Christian singer? I love how these
Christian freaks shove family values down everyone else's throat but
have no idea what it means. They're so concerned about gays having
kids with 2 daddies yet have no problems shuttling their bastard
children back and forth between their real dads and stepdads. Amy
Grant needs to keep her legs closed. She ruined this guy's life.
It's
very hard to live it down having your wife cheating with another man.

Without getting into what's right, what's wrong, Gary Chapman has
had major drinking issues long before Vince Gill showed up. There
were big problems in the marriage that have nothing to do with
another man coming along. It's the first (and really, just about only)
thing I learned about Amy Grant, was how troubled her marriage was.

Not only drinking issues, but drug issues as well. He's always been a
punk .... think of him as Amy Grant's Kevin Federline or Bobby Brown,
if you will. The sad thing is that she felt obligated to stay with him
for so long (and kept popping out babies with him). She regretted
marrying him almost as soon as the vows were said. Every interview
with her through the years had an underlying theme about the
difficulties in her marriage ... I could probably gather at least one
telling quote from every interview.

Still, when she founded her entire career on her Christian message,
it's awfully hard to ignore the fact that she still had an affair. Lots
of people live in very difficult marriages and regret their choice for
marriage, but that doesn't excuse an affair.
As far as Amy Grant goes, I heard about her when she was 19, and was
playing a small venue. She's pretty attractive, and at one point in the
concert she put down her guitar and talked honestly about how lonely
her life was and how she'd love to have a significant friend. I wasn't
there but a friend who was recounted that after the concert it was
'standing room only' backstage as just about every single guy in the
house wanted to help 'take away her pain.' lol.

Amy Grant's career was founded on (and probably still grounded in) Christian
music. If you were familiar with her body of work, you would understand how
silly the accusations of hypocrisy are. She has recorded a lot of music
that support on uphold general Christian values - but not song that espouse
the message of hate that has become the backbone of fundamentalist,
republican, Christians.

I was a huge fan of hers through the mid 90s - and haven't listened much
since her last contemporary pop album (non-christian). I often listen to
one of her Christmas albums and the song "Up in the attic" still moves me,
in spite of myself...

I am not terribly religious (not affliated with any church) and I am a hawk
when it comes to hypocritical behavior. I have never found her body of
work, nor her behavior as an adult woman, to be hypocritical. Her core
beliefs may be different from mind, but she seems focused on the message of
Jesus - love... not the tyrannical retribution laden messages of Paul...

[Temily]

Post by Rodney M.
Still, when she founded her entire career on her Christian message,
it's awfully hard to ignore the fact that she still had an affair.

But aren't Christians forgiven for their sins?

OK I'm being cynical.

Temily

[Calla]

Post by Rodney M.

Post by Calla

Post by Nancy Young

Post by Socks
Aren't Amy Grant and Chapman devout Christians living in the heart of
redneck country? Isn't she some Christian singer? I love how these
Christian freaks shove family values down everyone else's throat but
have no idea what it means. They're so concerned about gays having
kids with 2 daddies yet have no problems shuttling their bastard
children back and forth between their real dads and stepdads. Amy
Grant needs to keep her legs closed. She ruined this guy's life. It's
very hard to live it down having your wife cheating with another man.

Without getting into what's right, what's wrong, Gary Chapman has
had major drinking issues long before Vince Gill showed up. There
were big problems in the marriage that have nothing to do with
another man coming along. It's the first (and really, just about only)
thing I learned about Amy Grant, was how troubled her marriage was.

Not only drinking issues, but drug issues as well. He's always been a
punk .... think of him as Amy Grant's Kevin Federline or Bobby Brown,
if you will. The sad thing is that she felt obligated to stay with him
for so long (and kept popping out babies with him). She regretted
marrying him almost as soon as the vows were said. Every interview
with her through the years had an underlying theme about the
difficulties in her marriage ... I could probably gather at least one
telling quote from every interview.

Still, when she founded her entire career on her Christian message,
it's awfully hard to ignore the fact that she still had an affair. Lots
of people live in very difficult marriages and regret their choice for
marriage, but that doesn't excuse an affair.

It wasn't a sexual affair - they have both said in public that there
was never even a kiss before she was divorced. I do agree that it was
an emotional affair, though, and Vince acknowledged that it was
"probably" an inappropriate friendship in an interview w/Larry King a
couple of years ago. I believe them, because Amy is always blurting
out things even to this day that someone wouldn't do if they were
trying to hide or lie. She recently said something about how her love
for golf has now considerably waned, and she's come to the conclusion
that her golf obsession (during the latter part of her marriage) was
mostly because she was "stalking" Vince at the time.

[Victor Guettlein]

Post by Rodney M.

Post by Nancy Young

Post by Socks
Aren't Amy Grant and Chapman devout Christians living in the heart of
redneck country? Isn't she some Christian singer? I love how these
Christian freaks shove family values down everyone else's throat but
have no idea what it means. They're so concerned about gays having
kids with 2 daddies yet have no problems shuttling their bastard
children back and forth between their real dads and stepdads. Amy
Grant needs to keep her legs closed. She ruined this guy's life. It's
very hard to live it down having your wife cheating with another man.

Without getting into what's right, what's wrong, Gary Chapman has
had major drinking issues long before Vince Gill showed up. There
were big problems in the marriage that have nothing to do with
another man coming along. It's the first (and really, just about only)
thing I learned about Amy Grant, was how troubled her marriage was.

Not only drinking issues, but drug issues as well. He's always been a
punk .... think of him as Amy Grant's Kevin Federline or Bobby Brown,
if you will. The sad thing is that she felt obligated to stay with him
for so long (and kept popping out babies with him). She regretted
marrying him almost as soon as the vows were said. Every interview
with her through the years had an underlying theme about the
difficulties in her marriage ... I could probably gather at least one
telling quote from every interview.

Still, when she founded her entire career on her Christian message,
it's awfully hard to ignore the fact that she still had an affair. Lots
of people live in very difficult marriages and regret their choice for
marriage, but that doesn't excuse an affair.
As far as Amy Grant goes, I heard about her when she was 19, and was
playing a small venue. She's pretty attractive, and at one point in the
concert she put down her guitar and talked honestly about how lonely
her life was and how she'd love to have a significant friend. I wasn't
there but a friend who was recounted that after the concert it was
'standing room only' backstage as just about every single guy in the
house wanted to help 'take away her pain.' lol.

Let the one of you who is without sin throw the first stone. Or, just shut the f* up and judge your own life first.

[Ellie]

Post by Calla

Post by Nancy Young

Post by Socks
Aren't Amy Grant and Chapman devout Christians living in the heart of
redneck country? Isn't she some Christian singer? I love how these
Christian freaks shove family values down everyone else's throat but
have no idea what it means. They're so concerned about gays having
kids with 2 daddies yet have no problems shuttling their bastard
children back and forth between their real dads and stepdads. Amy
Grant needs to keep her legs closed. She ruined this guy's life. It's
very hard to live it down having your wife cheating with another man.

Without getting into what's right, what's wrong, Gary Chapman has
had major drinking issues long before Vince Gill showed up. There
were big problems in the marriage that have nothing to do with
another man coming along. It's the first (and really, just about only)
thing I learned about Amy Grant, was how troubled her marriage was.

Not only drinking issues, but drug issues as well. He's always been a
punk .... think of him as Amy Grant's Kevin Federline or Bobby Brown,
if you will. The sad thing is that she felt obligated to stay with him
for so long (and kept popping out babies with him). She regretted
marrying him almost as soon as the vows were said. Every interview
with her through the years had an underlying theme about the
difficulties in her marriage ... I could probably gather at least one
telling quote from every interview.

Their pastor stated that their divorce was allowable because it was
"biblical grounds". That means one or the other committed adultery.
Supposedly Gary told Amy he would stop begging her to stay in the marriage,
so she felt "released".
Here are the links to their dualing interviews if anyone's interested. Both
interviews are from 1999 or 2000.
http://www.ccmmagazine.com/features/26.aspx?Page=1

http://www.ccmmagazine.com/features/1394.aspx

[Nancy Young]

Post by Calla

Post by Nancy Young
Without getting into what's right, what's wrong, Gary Chapman has
had major drinking issues long before Vince Gill showed up. There
were big problems in the marriage that have nothing to do with
another man coming along. It's the first (and really, just about only)
thing I learned about Amy Grant, was how troubled her marriage was.

Not only drinking issues, but drug issues as well. He's always been a
punk .... think of him as Amy Grant's Kevin Federline or Bobby Brown,
if you will. The sad thing is that she felt obligated to stay with him
for so long (and kept popping out babies with him). She regretted
marrying him almost as soon as the vows were said. Every interview
with her through the years had an underlying theme about the
difficulties in her marriage ... I could probably gather at least one
telling quote from every interview.

You really nailed what I had read about their marriage. Exactly.
I'd forgotten about the drugs, but I did remember what a flat out chore
staying married was for them. I can't fault her for getting out.

nancy

[lj]

Post by Nancy Young

Post by Calla

Post by Nancy Young
Without getting into what's right, what's wrong, Gary Chapman has
had major drinking issues long before Vince Gill showed up. There
were big problems in the marriage that have nothing to do with
another man coming along. It's the first (and really, just about only)
thing I learned about Amy Grant, was how troubled her marriage was.

Not only drinking issues, but drug issues as well. He's always been a
punk .... think of him as Amy Grant's Kevin Federline or Bobby Brown,
if you will. The sad thing is that she felt obligated to stay with him
for so long (and kept popping out babies with him). She regretted
marrying him almost as soon as the vows were said. Every interview
with her through the years had an underlying theme about the
difficulties in her marriage ... I could probably gather at least one
telling quote from every interview.

You really nailed what I had read about their marriage. Exactly.
I'd forgotten about the drugs, but I did remember what a flat out chore
staying married was for them. I can't fault her for getting out.
nancy

I dont fault her for getting out or regrettig she married him in the first
place. I do fault her for having an affair PRIOR to getting out of her
marriage and I fault her for having an affair with a married man. Btw, I
fault Gill too.

[Nancy Young]

Post by lj

Post by Nancy Young
You really nailed what I had read about their marriage. Exactly.
I'd forgotten about the drugs, but I did remember what a flat out chore
staying married was for them. I can't fault her for getting out.

I dont fault her for getting out or regrettig she married him in the first
place. I do fault her for having an affair PRIOR to getting out of her
marriage and I fault her for having an affair with a married man. Btw, I
fault Gill too.

Well, life goes on. At any rate, I was responding to the 'she ruined
Gary's life' thing. He has taken care of that all on his own.

nancy

[mike]

Post by lj

Post by Nancy Young

Post by Calla

Post by Nancy Young
Without getting into what's right, what's wrong, Gary Chapman has
had major drinking issues long before Vince Gill showed up. There
were big problems in the marriage that have nothing to do with
another man coming along. It's the first (and really, just about only)
thing I learned about Amy Grant, was how troubled her marriage was.

Not only drinking issues, but drug issues as well. He's always been a
punk .... think of him as Amy Grant's Kevin Federline or Bobby Brown,
if you will. The sad thing is that she felt obligated to stay with him
for so long (and kept popping out babies with him). She regretted
marrying him almost as soon as the vows were said. Every interview
with her through the years had an underlying theme about the
difficulties in her marriage ... I could probably gather at least one
telling quote from every interview.

You really nailed what I had read about their marriage. Exactly.
I'd forgotten about the drugs, but I did remember what a flat out chore
staying married was for them. I can't fault her for getting out.
nancy

I dont fault her for getting out or regrettig she married him in the first
place. I do fault her for having an affair PRIOR to getting out of her
marriage and I fault her for having an affair with a married man. Btw, I
fault Gill too.

although I do fault her for ending her marriage, I can go along with
what you said. it's far more reasonable than what the vast majority of
Amy fans say and think.

[mike]

Post by Calla

Post by Nancy Young

Post by Socks
Aren't Amy Grant and Chapman devout Christians living in the heart of
redneck country? Isn't she some Christian singer? I love how these
Christian freaks shove family values down everyone else's throat but
have no idea what it means. They're so concerned about gays having
kids with 2 daddies yet have no problems shuttling their bastard
children back and forth between their real dads and stepdads. Amy
Grant needs to keep her legs closed. She ruined this guy's life. It's
very hard to live it down having your wife cheating with another man.

Without getting into what's right, what's wrong, Gary Chapman has
had major drinking issues long before Vince Gill showed up. There
were big problems in the marriage that have nothing to do with
another man coming along. It's the first (and really, just about only)
thing I learned about Amy Grant, was how troubled her marriage was.

Not only drinking issues, but drug issues as well. He's always been a
punk .... think of him as Amy Grant's Kevin Federline or Bobby Brown,
if you will. The sad thing is that she felt obligated to stay with him
for so long (and kept popping out babies with him). She regretted
marrying him almost as soon as the vows were said. Every interview
with her through the years had an underlying theme about the
difficulties in her marriage ... I could probably gather at least one
telling quote from every interview.

she wasn't forced to marry him. they had a difficult marriage, so
what. that didn't give Amy Grant the right to have an affair (sexual or
of the heart) with another man, divorce her husband Gary, and get
"married" to her lover, and wreck TWO families.

[G-Net]

Post by Socks

Post by mike
apparently it was mentioned on Amygrant.com but I can't find it
there.
this is where I read the news http://tinyurl.com/yn4lcj I assume
it's true. no reason not to believe it.
Amy Grant had an affair with country singer Vince Gill in the early to
mid 1990s, and she divorced her husband, Gary Chapman, around 1997, and
married her lover Vince Gill around 1999.
Gary has been in a downward spiral, recently getting arrested for drunk
driving IIRC. and now he and his second wife, Jen, have apparently
legally seperated..
gotta feel bad for their kids when both parents (Amy and Gary) mess up
so incredibly badly.

Aren't Amy Grant and Chapman devout Christians living in the heart of
redneck country? Isn't she some Christian singer? I love how these
Christian freaks shove family values down everyone else's throat but
have no idea what it means. They're so concerned about gays having
kids with 2 daddies yet have no problems shuttling their bastard
children back and forth between their real dads and stepdads. Amy
Grant needs to keep her legs closed. She ruined this guy's life. It's
very hard to live it down having your wife cheating with another man.

Just because someone is a Christian does not mean that they are perfect! The
fact that someone professes to be a Christian proves that they know that
they
are not perfect and that they need a savior.

[Pastor Steve Winter]

Post by Socks
Aren't Amy Grant and Chapman devout Christians living in the heart of
redneck country? Isn't she some Christian singer?

No, they are false-christians, trinitarians.

Pastor Winter

[i***@yahoo.com]

Pastor Steve Winter wrote:

snip

Post by Pastor Steve Winter
No, they are false-christians, trinitarians.
Pastor Winter
--

snip

[Réne Girard]

Post by Pastor Steve Winter

Post by Socks
Aren't Amy Grant and Chapman devout Christians living in the heart of
redneck country? Isn't she some Christian singer?

No, they are false-christians, trinitarians.
Pastor Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
http://tinyurl.com/mxu7o for trinity is antichrist sermon

Why are trinitarians false Christians?

[mike]

Post by Socks

Post by mike
apparently it was mentioned on Amygrant.com but I can't find it
there.
this is where I read the news http://tinyurl.com/yn4lcj I assume
it's true. no reason not to believe it.
Amy Grant had an affair with country singer Vince Gill in the early to
mid 1990s, and she divorced her husband, Gary Chapman, around 1997, and
married her lover Vince Gill around 1999.
Gary has been in a downward spiral, recently getting arrested for drunk
driving IIRC. and now he and his second wife, Jen, have apparently
legally seperated..
gotta feel bad for their kids when both parents (Amy and Gary) mess up
so incredibly badly.

Aren't Amy Grant and Chapman devout Christians living in the heart of
redneck country? Isn't she some Christian singer? I love how these
Christian freaks shove family values down everyone else's throat but
have no idea what it means. They're so concerned about gays having
kids with 2 daddies yet have no problems shuttling their bastard
children back and forth between their real dads and stepdads. Amy
Grant needs to keep her legs closed. She ruined this guy's life. It's
very hard to live it down having your wife cheating with another man.

I wholeheartedly agree with you.

[lj]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[c***@gmail.com]

You know what Christians aren't perfect. They make mistakes as well. I disagree with what Amy Grant did but she's not perfect she sins just like the rest of us so stop judging!

[a***@hotmail.com]

Post by mike
apparently it was mentioned on Amygrant.com but I can't find it
there.
this is where I read the news http://tinyurl.com/yn4lcj I assume
it's true. no reason not to believe it.
Amy Grant had an affair with country singer Vince Gill in the early to
mid 1990s, and she divorced her husband, Gary Chapman, around 1997, and
married her lover Vince Gill around 1999.
Gary has been in a downward spiral, recently getting arrested for drunk
driving IIRC. and now he and his second wife, Jen, have apparently
legally seperated..
gotta feel bad for their kids when both parents (Amy and Gary) mess up
so incredibly badly.

[a***@hotmail.com]

Post by mike
apparently it was mentioned on Amygrant.com but I can't find it
there.
this is where I read the news http://tinyurl.com/yn4lcj I assume
it's true. no reason not to believe it.
Amy Grant had an affair with country singer Vince Gill in the early to
mid 1990s, and she divorced her husband, Gary Chapman, around 1997, and
married her lover Vince Gill around 1999.
Gary has been in a downward spiral, recently getting arrested for drunk
driving IIRC. and now he and his second wife, Jen, have apparently
legally seperated..
gotta feel bad for their kids when both parents (Amy and Gary) mess up
so incredibly badly.

[a***@hotmail.com]

thats is soo true..What parents fail to realize is that their
separation adversely impacts their kids....

Regards Mike,
<a href="http://pakistan-gifts.com">Pakistan Gifts Store</a>

[a***@hotmail.com]

also their actions matter too!!!!

[extex]

Post by mike
gotta feel bad for their kids when both parents (Amy and Gary) mess up
so incredibly badly.

People divorce every day.Amy and Vince are very happy.
Why feel bad for the kids?
Their mother is happy and in a loving relationship.
Gary has issues but there is no doubt they are loved
e

[mike]

Post by extex

Post by mike
gotta feel bad for their kids when both parents (Amy and Gary) mess up
so incredibly badly.

People divorce every day.Amy and Vince are very happy.
Why feel bad for the kids?
Their mother is happy and in a loving relationship.
Gary has issues but there is no doubt they are loved
e

why feel bad for the kids? because their home was broken when Amy
decided to break it up.
so what if Amy and Vince are happy in their adulterous "marriage"....
that doesn't mean Amy's kids are happy. Amy might be in a 'loving'
relationship but its really nothing more than affair in my eyes, and in
the eyes of many many real Christians.

[Doomella]

Post by mike
Amy might be in a 'loving'
relationship but its really nothing more than affair in my eyes, and in
the eyes of many many real Christians.

Why is it always those who define themselves as "real Christians" who
are the most judgmental and sanctimonious?
No "real Christian" (if such a thing could even exist) would describe
him/herself as a "real Christian."

[Temily]

Post by Doomella
No "real Christian" (if such a thing could even exist) would describe
him/herself as a "real Christian."

I remember once..a person said,

"I am a christian because they I do good deeds, live a good life, never
hurt anyone and basically treated others as I wanted to be treated
themselves. I live a good christian life."

And someone else piped up and said...

I am a christian because I believe in Jesus Christ. I believe that
Jesus died on the cross for them and forgave me my sins. I've taken
Jesus personally into my life and here is what the Bible says, "I am
the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except
through me." John 14:6 and "For God so loved the world that he gave his
one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but
have eternal life". John 3:16

And someone else said..

"I had to write whether i was a Christian or 'other' in a legal
application, so I wrote that I was a Christian because i am a Catholic
and i go to mass every Sunday".

His friend said,

"Yes, I'm anglican and I pray every night, so i'm christian".

All had a view on what their belief of what being a Christian was, and
who can say one is more right over the other?

Temily

[Temily]

Temily wrote:
they I

Sorry about the confusion in 1st and 3rd person..i wrote it as 3rd
originally and then changed it to 1st and forgot some bits! (before
the gramarians come into force!)

Temily

[torresD]

http://christianparty.net/talmud.htm

[Azaliah]

On 12 Nov 2006 20:49:34 -0800, while bungee jumping, "Temily"

Post by Temily

Post by Doomella
No "real Christian" (if such a thing could even exist) would describe
him/herself as a "real Christian."

I remember once..a person said,
"I am a christian because they I do good deeds, live a good life, never
hurt anyone and basically treated others as I wanted to be treated
themselves. I live a good christian life."
And someone else piped up and said...
I am a christian because I believe in Jesus Christ. I believe that
Jesus died on the cross for them and forgave me my sins. I've taken
Jesus personally into my life and here is what the Bible says, "I am
the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except
through me." John 14:6 and "For God so loved the world that he gave his
one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but
have eternal life". John 3:16
And someone else said..
"I had to write whether i was a Christian or 'other' in a legal
application, so I wrote that I was a Christian because i am a Catholic
and i go to mass every Sunday".
His friend said,
"Yes, I'm anglican and I pray every night, so i'm christian".
All had a view on what their belief of what being a Christian was, and
who can say one is more right over the other?
Temily

God. And what His word tell us, is that it is a true,
living faith that matter.

"For what saith the Scripture? Abraham believed God, and it
was counted unto him for righteousness." - Romans 4:3

[G-Net]

Post by mike

Post by extex

Post by mike
gotta feel bad for their kids when both parents (Amy and Gary) mess up
so incredibly badly.

People divorce every day.Amy and Vince are very happy.
Why feel bad for the kids?
Their mother is happy and in a loving relationship.
Gary has issues but there is no doubt they are loved
e

why feel bad for the kids? because their home was broken when Amy
decided to break it up.

I can tell you from experience that it's the kids who suffer the most in
virtually every situation. Adults make decisions that greatly affect their
children but rarely ever consult them before hand.

Post by mike
so what if Amy and Vince are happy in their adulterous "marriage"....
that doesn't mean Amy's kids are happy.

You are SOO right! I would bet a paycheck that the kids are really very
unhappy.

Post by mike
Amy might be in a 'loving' relationship but its really nothing more
than affair in my eyes, and in the eyes of many many real
Christians.

Yeah, I would have to agree with you. It's one thing to have a marriage that
is in trouble but to compound that by having one or more affairs is really
adding insult to injury.

[Temily]

Post by G-Net
I can tell you from experience that it's the kids who suffer the most in
virtually every situation. Adults make decisions that greatly affect their
children but rarely ever consult them before hand.

And so they shouldn't either. If children were in the consultative
process when a couple is divorcing it would be very messy.

When the children grow up..they usually don't consult their parents
either if they're going through a divorce.

A divorce is between two people - the person and their spouse.

Yes it impacts the children and every measure should be made to make
the transition less painful, but it's a painful process for all
concerned where all suffer in varying degrees.

Temily

[Nearl J Icarus]

Post by Temily
When the children grow up..they usually don't consult their parents
either if they're going through a divorce.

The last time my X wanted a separation I talked to Mom one of my uncles about
it, (I wasn't going to play the 'separation' game, I would have filed for a
divorce instead). A couple years later when I did file for a divorce, Mom was
one of the first people I told about it. (it wouldn't have done much good to
tell Dad about it, he had long since passed away).

[Temily]

Post by Nearl J Icarus
A couple years later when I did file for a divorce, Mom was
one of the first people I told about it.

Telling is a little different to consulting. But i know what you
mean..It's probably more likely for grown kids to talk with parents
about it than parents to talk with children...unless the children are
grown i guess.

Temily

[Nearl J Icarus]

Post by Temily

Post by Nearl J Icarus
A couple years later when I did file for a divorce, Mom was
one of the first people I told about it.

Telling is a little different to consulting. But i know what you

When the X wanted a separation, I did talk to Mom about it. When I told her
about what I was trying to do to, her words were, "She knows how to make you
dance. When you find out how to get her to dance, you've got it made." I never
did find out what the key was.

There weren't a whole lot of people I knew that were divorced whom I'd take
any advice from. My parents were together 10 years and separated 20. My uncle
was divorced.

[Temily]

Post by Nearl J Icarus
There weren't a whole lot of people I knew that were divorced whom I'd take
any advice from. My parents were together 10 years and separated 20. My uncle
was divorced.

Is that because you didn't know that many people that were divorced? Or
because you don't think divorced people would give good advice? Or
because they have been separated for longer than they've been together?

Sometimes I wonder why people stay together when they're obviously not
happy..so from a 'divorced' person's perspective...I wonder if it's
because they're too lazy/scared/safe/insert whatever reason/ to make
any changes?

I don't think being divorced is the end of the world. It can be
devestating at the time..but it can also be the beginning of something
pretty fantastic! Divorce can be a new beginning!

I just want to thank the woman my ex went with..because if they
hadn't..i'd still be in an apathetic marriage and not as happy as i am
now!

Temily

[Nearl J Icarus]

Post by Temily
Is that because you didn't know that many people that were divorced? Or
because you don't think divorced people would give good advice? Or
because they have been separated for longer than they've been together?

There weren't that many people I knew who were divorced and whose opinion had
any credibility. There were a group of us who hung out together when I was a
lot younger. I was the first one that got married and the last one that got
divorced. I wouldn't necessarily ask them for any advice. 8-/

Post by Temily
Sometimes I wonder why people stay together when they're obviously not
happy..so from a 'divorced' person's perspective...I wonder if it's
because they're too lazy/scared/safe/insert whatever reason/ to make
any changes?

In some respects its like the car you have. You know all the little bugs about
it and how to get it to start on a cold night. Do you really want to trade it
in for something that will eventually require work anyway but you don't know
what the bugs will be when they creep in.

Personally, if I had fewer kids, my marriage would have ended a whole lot
earlier. There was no way in hell I was going to leave their upbringing to her
alone.

Post by Temily
I don't think being divorced is the end of the world. It can be
devestating at the time..but it can also be the beginning of something
pretty fantastic! Divorce can be a new beginning!

Are you one of those damned optimists? 8-/ Divorce can be a lot of things,
that is for sure. Nuclear energy can be that big mushroom cloud or it could be
that thingy that supplies your city with electricity.

Post by Temily
I just want to thank the woman my ex went with..because if they
hadn't..i'd still be in an apathetic marriage and not as happy as i am
now!

I hear ya. I drank a toast to husbands and wives one time. If it weren't for
them, Linda and I wouldn't have been able to get togther.

[Temily]

Do you really want to trade it in for something that will eventually require work anyway but >you don't know what the bugs will be when they creep in.

You'd rather stick with the old bomb then? Even if it makes you as
miserable as old boots!

Personally, if I had fewer kids, my marriage would have ended a whole lot
earlier. There was no way in hell I was going to leave their upbringing to her
alone.

Oh yes. I can see your parenting together would have made a difference
to the happiness of your home...

Are you one of those damned optimists?

Well i do believe pessimism and feeling sorry for yourself in this
world can be overturned with a good dose of optimism. Which is probably
why i question the elective use of so many prescriptive drugs for
adults and children.

I hear ya. I drank a toast to husbands and wives one time. If it weren't for
them, Linda and I wouldn't have been able to get togther.

Sounds a bit skewiff, but that's your business.

Temily

[Nearl J Icarus]

Post by Temily
You'd rather stick with the old bomb then? Even if it makes you as
miserable as old boots!

Once I get a pair of boots broke in, I wear 'em 'til they fall off my feet.
New boots are what makes me miserable. 8-)

[Azaliah]

On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 02:48:47 -0600, while bungee jumping,

Post by Nearl J Icarus

Post by Temily
When the children grow up..they usually don't consult their parents
either if they're going through a divorce.

The last time my X wanted a separation I talked to Mom one of my uncles about
it, (I wasn't going to play the 'separation' game, I would have filed for a
divorce instead). A couple years later when I did file for a divorce, Mom was
one of the first people I told about it. (it wouldn't have done much good to
tell Dad about it, he had long since passed away).

I think what was meant, was having decision making power
and not just advice giving power.

[Dr Nancy's Sweetie]

I'm somewhat concerned that this entire thread is nothing but the sort
of gossip explicitly condemned in Scripture. People are discussing the
family matters of others for no decent reason I can see. No object
lessons have been offered; no guidance from their situation has been
suggested which might be of value to those reading.

The thread seems to exist entirely to condemn someone else for how they
handled their problems: either Ms Grant, for giving up on a marriage
with apparently serious difficulties, or Mr Chapman, for failing to
overcome his problems and causing those difficulties.

Whichever side the posters have taken, they've all felt free to discuss
and condemn what *should be* the private business of other people. Do
those condemning Ms Grant and Mr Chapman really believe that it's okay
to gossip about others just because those others have sinned?


Darren Provine ! ***@elvis.rowan.edu ! http://www.rowan.edu/~kilroy
"And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to
a base mind and to improper conduct. They were filled with all manner
of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice. Full of envy, murder,
strife, deceit, malignity, they are gossips[.]" -- Romans 1:28-29

[Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe]

Nicely put, Darren.

Kitten

Post by Dr Nancy's Sweetie
I'm somewhat concerned that this entire thread is nothing but the sort
of gossip explicitly condemned in Scripture. People are discussing the
family matters of others for no decent reason I can see. No object
lessons have been offered; no guidance from their situation has been
suggested which might be of value to those reading.
The thread seems to exist entirely to condemn someone else for how they
handled their problems: either Ms Grant, for giving up on a marriage
with apparently serious difficulties, or Mr Chapman, for failing to
overcome his problems and causing those difficulties.
Whichever side the posters have taken, they've all felt free to discuss
and condemn what *should be* the private business of other people. Do
those condemning Ms Grant and Mr Chapman really believe that it's okay
to gossip about others just because those others have sinned?
"And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to
a base mind and to improper conduct. They were filled with all manner
of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice. Full of envy, murder,
strife, deceit, malignity, they are gossips[.]" -- Romans 1:28-29

[Temily]

Post by Dr Nancy's Sweetie
Whichever side the posters have taken, they've all felt free to discuss
and condemn what *should be* the private business of other people. Do
those condemning Ms Grant and Mr Chapman really believe that it's okay
to gossip about others just because those others have sinned?

I think in a forum such as this we 'talk' 'gossip' 'discuss' or
whatever you want to call it other people's business just as a matter
of course. If we only discussed ourselves (and no one else - ie
spouses, ex's, family, people we know etcetc) i'd say after a while
there would be no discussion.

And what we call a sin is anyone's guess. Some thing are more
acceptable to some people..so what one person calls a sin may not be
what another person would call it!

Temily

[Dr Nancy's Sweetie]

Post by Temily
I think in a forum such as this we 'talk' 'gossip' 'discuss' or
whatever you want to call it other people's business just as a matter
of course.

Most of what I read here is when people themselves, often anonymously,
bring up their own problems because they are seeking advice. That's not
gossip, because (a) the people involved start the discussion themselves,
(b) the discussion is intended to achieve some worthwhile end, and
(often) (c) their personal details are omitted so they retain their
privacy.

The discussion of Ms Grant and Mr Chapman fails all three: (a) they are
not themselves participating, (b) the discussion serves no worthwhile
purpose, and (c) not only isn't there any privacy, but if it wasn't for
them being famous the thread probably wouldn't have started at all.

The most common adjective with "gossip" is "idle" -- the talk serves
no productive purpose. And this thread of discussion has been almost
entirely idle gossip.

Post by Temily
If we only discussed ourselves (and no one else - ie spouses, ex's,
family, people we know etcetc) i'd say after a while there would be no
discussion.

There will always be new people coming in to ask for suggestions. And
if there's a lull, what's so bad about that? Better no speech at all
than gossip.

Post by Temily
And what we call a sin is anyone's guess. Some thing are more
acceptable to some people..so what one person calls a sin may not be
what another person would call it!

You have misunderstood my question: I asked "is it okay to gossip if
the subjects are sinners?" to make people think about why they are
doing it.

One significant problem with gossip, in my view, is that it causes you
to condemn the behaviour of other people, when our first Earthly duty is
to improve ourselves. One participant said he was a "real Christian",
and having done so was happy to condemn Ms Grant's sins -- without
pausing at all to ask if he was himself committing the sin of gossip in
posting his article.

All gossip is about sinners, because everybody falls short some of the
time. The Bible condemns gossip regardless of the moral worth of its
subject. And yet self-described "real Christians" are happy to gossip
at length as long as it's about somebody they don't approve of.


Darren Provine ! ***@elvis.rowan.edu ! http://www.rowan.edu/~kilroy
"Why do you call me 'Lord, Lord' and do not do what I say?" -- Jesus

[Suey]

Post by Dr Nancy's Sweetie

Post by Temily
I think in a forum such as this we 'talk' 'gossip' 'discuss' or
whatever you want to call it other people's business just as a matter
of course.

Most of what I read here is when people themselves, often anonymously,
bring up their own problems because they are seeking advice. That's not
gossip, because (a) the people involved start the discussion themselves,
(b) the discussion is intended to achieve some worthwhile end, and
(often) (c) their personal details are omitted so they retain their
privacy.
The discussion of Ms Grant and Mr Chapman fails all three: (a) they are
not themselves participating, (b) the discussion serves no worthwhile
purpose, and (c) not only isn't there any privacy, but if it wasn't for
them being famous the thread probably wouldn't have started at all.
The most common adjective with "gossip" is "idle" -- the talk serves
no productive purpose. And this thread of discussion has been almost
entirely idle gossip.

Post by Temily
If we only discussed ourselves (and no one else - ie spouses, ex's,
family, people we know etcetc) i'd say after a while there would be no
discussion.

There will always be new people coming in to ask for suggestions. And
if there's a lull, what's so bad about that? Better no speech at all
than gossip.

Post by Temily
And what we call a sin is anyone's guess. Some thing are more
acceptable to some people..so what one person calls a sin may not be
what another person would call it!

You have misunderstood my question: I asked "is it okay to gossip if
the subjects are sinners?" to make people think about why they are
doing it.
One significant problem with gossip, in my view, is that it causes you
to condemn the behaviour of other people, when our first Earthly duty is
to improve ourselves. One participant said he was a "real Christian",
and having done so was happy to condemn Ms Grant's sins -- without
pausing at all to ask if he was himself committing the sin of gossip in
posting his article.
All gossip is about sinners, because everybody falls short some of the
time. The Bible condemns gossip regardless of the moral worth of its
subject. And yet self-described "real Christians" are happy to gossip
at length as long as it's about somebody they don't approve of.
"Why do you call me 'Lord, Lord' and do not do what I say?" -- Jesus

Post by Temily
a great big AMEN to this excellent post !!

[G-Net]

Post by Dr Nancy's Sweetie

Post by Temily
I think in a forum such as this we 'talk' 'gossip' 'discuss' or
whatever you want to call it other people's business just as a matter
of course.

Most of what I read here is when people themselves, often anonymously,
bring up their own problems because they are seeking advice. That's not
gossip, because (a) the people involved start the discussion themselves,
(b) the discussion is intended to achieve some worthwhile end, and
(often) (c) their personal details are omitted so they retain their
privacy.
The discussion of Ms Grant and Mr Chapman fails all three: (a) they are
not themselves participating, (b) the discussion serves no worthwhile
purpose, and (c) not only isn't there any privacy, but if it wasn't for
them being famous the thread probably wouldn't have started at all.
The most common adjective with "gossip" is "idle" -- the talk serves
no productive purpose. And this thread of discussion has been almost
entirely idle gossip.

You miss the point that "they" are trying to make in making posts like this
one.
This post in not about gossip, it's not about worthwhile discussion and it's
not
about participation either. The whole point of this and many other posts
like it
is just to slam Christians and highlight how "sinful" and bad they are. Of
course this arrogance and ignorance disregards what Christianity is all
about
but that doesn't matter to "them".

Post by Dr Nancy's Sweetie

Post by Temily
If we only discussed ourselves (and no one else - ie spouses, ex's,
family, people we know etcetc) i'd say after a while there would be no
discussion.

There will always be new people coming in to ask for suggestions. And
if there's a lull, what's so bad about that? Better no speech at all
than gossip.

I agree, better there be a lull than some of the trash that is being posted.

Post by Dr Nancy's Sweetie

Post by Temily
And what we call a sin is anyone's guess. Some thing are more
acceptable to some people..so what one person calls a sin may not be
what another person would call it!

You have misunderstood my question: I asked "is it okay to gossip if
the subjects are sinners?" to make people think about why they are
doing it.

The answer is NO, it is never "alright" to gossip.

Post by Dr Nancy's Sweetie
One significant problem with gossip, in my view, is that it causes you
to condemn the behaviour of other people, when our first Earthly duty is
to improve ourselves.

You are correct but unfortunately, there are those who feel that they are
superior and thus need no improvement. In their mind they want to
improve everyone else rather than themselves.

Post by Dr Nancy's Sweetie
One participant said he was a "real Christian", and having done so was
happy to condemn Ms Grant's sins -- without pausing at all to ask if he
was himself committing the sin of gossip in posting his article.

It was wrong for anyone to "throw stones" at Amy Grant or Gary Chapman. I
think
there were plenty of unbeliever's who are also guilty as well.

Post by Dr Nancy's Sweetie
All gossip is about sinners, because everybody falls short some of the
time. The Bible condemns gossip regardless of the moral worth of its
subject. And yet self-described "real Christians" are happy to gossip
at length as long as it's about somebody they don't approve of.

Anyone can call themselves anything, it does not make it so....

[Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe]

mike wrote:
<snipped>

Post by mike
the eyes of many many real Christians.

Interesting. What is your definition of a "real Christian?"

Kitten

[Anon]

This is such an old thread, I'm not sure if it's worth writing however on the principals of saying what needs to be said, I will.

It really does come down to this I believe, Amy Grant divorcing & remarrying is okay in Gods eyes, even though I know no details, because I trust my instincts & because of this bible verse, Matthew 19:8-9 "Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."

Unfaithfulness can be a number of things to do with the heart over a long period of time, such as Drugs, alcohol, cheating. Amy Grant & Vince did not have an affair. If she could no longer cope with her marriage because of Gary Chapmans love/addiction to drugs & alcohol which take over someone & if it did not change, then that is unfaithfulness.

I know nothing of her ex husband but I imagine if all was not well in his heart from the beginning of the marriage & he continued on in any kind of unfaithful way which hurt the relationship then perhaps she could stomach no more.

So go ahead & continue to enjoy her music & don't worry that humans don't have perfect lives all the time.

Post by mike
apparently it was mentioned on Amygrant.com but I can't find it
there.
this is where I read the news http://tinyurl.com/yn4lcj I assume
it's true. no reason not to believe it.
Amy Grant had an affair with country singer Vince Gill in the early to
mid 1990s, and she divorced her husband, Gary Chapman, around 1997, and
married her lover Vince Gill around 1999.
Gary has been in a downward spiral, recently getting arrested for drunk
driving IIRC. and now he and his second wife, Jen, have apparently
legally seperated..
gotta feel bad for their kids when both parents (Amy and Gary) mess up
so incredibly badly.

[r***@gmail.com]

Post by mike
apparently it was mentioned on Amygrant.com but I can't find it
there.
this is where I read the news http://tinyurl.com/yn4lcj I assume
it's true. no reason not to believe it.
Amy Grant had an affair with country singer Vince Gill in the early to
mid 1990s, and she divorced her husband, Gary Chapman, around 1997, and
married her lover Vince Gill around 1999.
Gary has been in a downward spiral, recently getting arrested for drunk
driving IIRC. and now he and his second wife, Jen, have apparently
legally seperated..
gotta feel bad for their kids when both parents (Amy and Gary) mess up
so incredibly badly.

Yes, Amy Grant is a Christian singer and, while still married to Gary Chapman, Amy had NO AFFAIR -- she and Gary lived next door to Vince Gill and his former wife.

When Amy was recording in her home recording studio, she needed a very high voice to sing high harmony so she went next door to ask Vince if he could come to her studio next door to help her by singing high harmony on a song (think it was House of Love).

No Affair -- End of Story

[a***@mcfarlandclinic.com]

Post by r***@gmail.com

Post by mike
apparently it was mentioned on Amygrant.com but I can't find it
there.
this is where I read the news http://tinyurl.com/yn4lcj I assume
it's true. no reason not to believe it.
Amy Grant had an affair with country singer Vince Gill in the early to
mid 1990s, and she divorced her husband, Gary Chapman, around 1997, and
married her lover Vince Gill around 1999.
Gary has been in a downward spiral, recently getting arrested for drunk
driving IIRC. and now he and his second wife, Jen, have apparently
legally seperated..
gotta feel bad for their kids when both parents (Amy and Gary) mess up
so incredibly badly.

Yes, Amy Grant is a Christian singer and, while still married to Gary Chapman, Amy had NO AFFAIR -- she and Gary lived next door to Vince Gill and his former wife.
When Amy was recording in her home recording studio, she needed a very high voice to sing high harmony so she went next door to ask Vince if he could come to her studio next door to help her by singing high harmony on a song (think it was House of Love).
No Affair -- End of Story

COmpletely wrong. THey didn't live next to each other. Vince Gill's ex-wife Janis has several interesting things to say, including finding love notes from Amy as early as 1994.

THey met on a Christmas Album long before "House of Love"

Just another disciple of Amy Grant, refusing to believe what has become obvious to most
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[t***@gmail.com]

There was no affair.

[6***@gmail.com]

Post by mike
apparently it was mentioned on Amygrant.com but I can't find it
there.
this is where I read the news http://tinyurl.com/yn4lcj I assume
it's true. no reason not to believe it.
Amy Grant had an affair with country singer Vince Gill in the early to
mid 1990s, and she divorced her husband, Gary Chapman, around 1997, and
married her lover Vince Gill around 1999.
Gary has been in a downward spiral, recently getting arrested for drunk
driving IIRC. and now he and his second wife, Jen, have apparently
legally seperated..
gotta feel bad for their kids when both parents (Amy and Gary) mess up
so incredibly badly.